Comments on: the other (viewers) http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/ blogging Second Life® since 2006 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:04:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ran Garrigus http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6827 Ran Garrigus Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:56:07 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6827 Gwyneth, I'd love to see evidence of that 10x bandwidth claim. It doesn't fit my own experience with the client. Gwyneth,

I’d love to see evidence of that 10x bandwidth claim. It doesn’t fit my own experience with the client.

]]> By: Ana Lutetia http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6796 Ana Lutetia Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:56:04 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6796 *shrugs* *shrugs*

]]> By: Gwyneth Llewelyn http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6794 Gwyneth Llewelyn Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:47:57 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6794 This is tricky. Those viewers you've listed actually have pseudo-copybot functions in it (in the sense that you can backup your content, give the backup file to someone else, or upload it to OpenSim, and the other person will have <i>full perms</i> on it), and it really all depends on LL's interpretation. Of course, LL is flexible enough in their own interpretation of the ToS... My biggest concern at this stage is about how legitimate the teams behind any of those viewers are. I only know personally some people behind Imprudence (which is incidentally one of the few viewers that does not violate any of LL's copyrights and/or third party copyrights; the major problem is distributing something with the name "Second Life" in it, like almost all other viewers do, as well as the super-fast proprietary code for decoding textures, which Imprudence doesn't use [thus, it's slower than the others]) but none from the others. I love Kirsten's viewer because of the high quality of the images and the superfast performance. Emerald is by far the one with most extra functions, but... why does it consume 10x as much bandwidth as any other viewer? And why is the list of the Emerald core team members always being updated, as some of the members get banned by Linden Lab and pop up with newbie accounts? This makes it a bit suspect, but it's also by far the most popular viewer. So I'm torn between this issue and haven't made up my mind yet. Although I do have perhaps 8 or 9 viewers downloaded on my Mac and tend to switch among them... :) This is tricky. Those viewers you’ve listed actually have pseudo-copybot functions in it (in the sense that you can backup your content, give the backup file to someone else, or upload it to OpenSim, and the other person will have full perms on it), and it really all depends on LL’s interpretation. Of course, LL is flexible enough in their own interpretation of the ToS…

My biggest concern at this stage is about how legitimate the teams behind any of those viewers are. I only know personally some people behind Imprudence (which is incidentally one of the few viewers that does not violate any of LL’s copyrights and/or third party copyrights; the major problem is distributing something with the name “Second Life” in it, like almost all other viewers do, as well as the super-fast proprietary code for decoding textures, which Imprudence doesn’t use [thus, it's slower than the others]) but none from the others. I love Kirsten’s viewer because of the high quality of the images and the superfast performance. Emerald is by far the one with most extra functions, but… why does it consume 10x as much bandwidth as any other viewer? And why is the list of the Emerald core team members always being updated, as some of the members get banned by Linden Lab and pop up with newbie accounts? This makes it a bit suspect, but it’s also by far the most popular viewer.

So I’m torn between this issue and haven’t made up my mind yet. Although I do have perhaps 8 or 9 viewers downloaded on my Mac and tend to switch among them… :)

]]> By: Anya Yalin http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6783 Anya Yalin Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:36:08 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6783 Like Gabby said, I think this is mostly directed at copybot viewers. Emerald and other alternative viewers don't allow you to violate TOS as far as I know, so you should be ok. It's a step in the right direction as I see it. Some people might argue that just because a certain viewer allows you to break the rules doesn't mean you're going to, but I tend to disagree. If you're using that particular viewer, that's exactly what you're trying to do. Banning based on viewer use is more than fair in my opinion. Maybe Linden Lab will find a more effective way of doing it (not holding out hope though), because creators have very little means of protecting themselves at the moment. I personally don't use alternate viewers, except when I run into problems with the official client. I also had a look at shadows once in one of Kirsten's viewers, but that's pretty much it. When I'm creating I need to know that what I'm seeing is exactly what the end user will be seeing as well. Like Gabby said, I think this is mostly directed at copybot viewers. Emerald and other alternative viewers don’t allow you to violate TOS as far as I know, so you should be ok.

It’s a step in the right direction as I see it. Some people might argue that just because a certain viewer allows you to break the rules doesn’t mean you’re going to, but I tend to disagree. If you’re using that particular viewer, that’s exactly what you’re trying to do. Banning based on viewer use is more than fair in my opinion. Maybe Linden Lab will find a more effective way of doing it (not holding out hope though), because creators have very little means of protecting themselves at the moment.

I personally don’t use alternate viewers, except when I run into problems with the official client. I also had a look at shadows once in one of Kirsten’s viewers, but that’s pretty much it. When I’m creating I need to know that what I’m seeing is exactly what the end user will be seeing as well.

]]> By: Suella Ember http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6780 Suella Ember Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:20:50 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6780 You most certainly are NOT doing anything wrong by using an alt viewer such as Emerald :) As Gabby says, what LL are trying to do is make it harder for the the bad viewers that allow people to break the TOS. They are well aware of the good alt viewers out there though, and have no intention of banning those. (something which i applaud them for) LL have said as much in the blog discussion on third party viewers. Some of the extremists who want to see ALL third-party viewers banned would try to convince you otherwise. But they are wrong :) What LL are rightly doing is trying to clamp down on all that is bad about SOME third-party viewers, while recognising and embracing all that is good about them :) You most certainly are NOT doing anything wrong by using an alt viewer such as Emerald :)
As Gabby says, what LL are trying to do is make it harder for the the bad viewers that allow people to break the TOS. They are well aware of the good alt viewers out there though, and have no intention of banning those. (something which i applaud them for)
LL have said as much in the blog discussion on third party viewers. Some of the extremists who want to see ALL third-party viewers banned would try to convince you otherwise. But they are wrong :)
What LL are rightly doing is trying to clamp down on all that is bad about SOME third-party viewers, while recognising and embracing all that is good about them :)

]]> By: Gabby Panacek http://analutetia.com/2009/10/24/the-other-viewers/#comment-6775 Gabby Panacek Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:13:13 +0000 http://analutetia.com/?p=8959#comment-6775 I read that to mean that using any of the "copybot"-like viewers would be reprimanded/suspended. It seems to me that LL intends to work with "legitimate" alt-viewer developers (ie. Imprudence, Emerald, Kirstens) to develop a set of standards so that we can trust these viewers to NOT violate TOS and Community Standards. From what I have read, this is a good thing and using a "legitimate" third-party viewer does not jeopardize your Second Life. I read that to mean that using any of the “copybot”-like viewers would be reprimanded/suspended. It seems to me that LL intends to work with “legitimate” alt-viewer developers (ie. Imprudence, Emerald, Kirstens) to develop a set of standards so that we can trust these viewers to NOT violate TOS and Community Standards.

From what I have read, this is a good thing and using a “legitimate” third-party viewer does not jeopardize your Second Life.

]]>